Parenting time

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2018-11-14


2018-11-26





E-mail exchanges 2018:

  • 2018-02-01 - Subject: Ten dollars to work off, and Tony's phone use and plan
  • 2018-07-17 - Subject: Dentist
    Inbox
	x
Dawn Martin
	
	Tue, Jul 17, 10:13 PM
Tony has a dentist appointment tomorrow at 4 pm. Can you take her? Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Ted Havelka
	
	Tue, Jul 17, 10:25 PM
Is her dentist still at NE 28th and Broadway, or a couple blocks from there? I shoudl be able to.
Dawn Martin
	
	Wed, Jul 18, 6:31 AM
Yes
Ted Havelka <ted@cs.pdx.edu>
	
Wed, Jul 18, 8:59 AM
	
to Tony, Dawn

Ok I'll look for Tony at your house between 3:30 and 3:45 this afternoon.  - Ted


  • 2018-06-21 - Word from Ted, have asked Tony to pay share of her phone bill
    Ted Havelka <ted@cs.pdx.edu>
	
Jun 21, 2018, 8:27 PM
	
to Dawn


Hello Dawn,

I've talked with Tony several times about her and my family phone contract, and her agreement to pay five dollars a month toward her bill.  At this time some months have passed and Tony owes thirty dollars for her smart phone services.  I told Tony she needs to pay me by this weekend, preferably Saturday.  Tony has or had a printed copy of our family phone agreement.  We both read over and signed it last year several months back.

Tony is angry at me and refusing to visit right now, however I want to keep you in the loop all the same.
Dawn Martin <dawnysophia@yahoo.com>
	
Jun 21, 2018, 9:09 PM
	
to Ted
I think it's perfectly fine and reasonable for you to ask Tony to pay $5 a month. It is not reasonable for you to let 6 months go by and then demand $30 in a short period of time.
You should forgive the $30. Ask for $5 due July 1st and on the first of each month moving forward. 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Ted Havelka <ted@cs.pdx.edu>
	
Jun 22, 2018, 12:02 PM
	
to Dawn

Hello Dawn,

If the situtuation you imply with your message were true, I'd agree with you.  But our reality is that I've talked with Tony on several occasions about her paying her five dollar share of her phone bill over the year, and she's chosen to delay or ignore it.  Tony has been well aware of her responsibility to help in this modest way since she switched to a smart phone.  There is no short period of time involved here.

It's also been unexpected to have Tony refuse to visit me since end of February this year, which makes it much harder to talk with her or have any interaction.  Tony rarely answers my phone calls and text messages, and then usually only with a single word.  She has shown no respect for nor interest in working out anything with me, family phone contract or otherwise.

As for several months passing before Tony pays her phone share, I'd like to avoid having this happen again.  Something like this happend at the start of this year, when Tony owed some money for data overages as well as a few months' five dollars share.  Like always I was patient;  I offered to Tony opportunities to earn and pay that back by helping with some needed home projects.  I could have just demanded she pay on her own and right away, but I tried to work with Tony in a positive way.

Despite my patience and offering alternatives, Tony doesn't appreciate that I'm covering her phone service.  There doesn't seem to be anyone encouraging her to respect her agreements or work things out with me.  The fact that Tony disagrees with decisions or house rules I may make does not make one of us right and the other wrong.  I do not frame my talks with Tony in such terms.  Those terms and concepts don't reflect the full of what is going on.

I don't expect to be popular or in agreement with Tony all the time, but I do expect her to ultimately respect me and our house rules.

With Tony's phone use and plan I've already shown much flexibility.  It's not ok for Tony to blow off her responsibilities, the very few she has in relation to me.  If Tony is unwilling to abide by the reasonable plan we agreed to, then I think it is time for Tony to find another way to maintain her phone plan and service.

As Tony's dad it's really important that to me that Tony learns how to handle disagreements in a healthy and productive way. This is a valuable resource she'll need to maintain healthy relationships with all of the people in her life, not just with me. It's a life lesson that she will reap dividends from for years to come if she can understand and value the importance of the relationships in her life. Her handling of this situation and other times she hasn't gotten her way, has me worried that she's not learning how to do this and perhaps more bothersome, she doesn't appear to see a value in it.


</ul> </pre> 2018-04-26 - Subject: Tony

x Dawn martin <dawnysophia@yahoo.com>

Apr 26, 2018, 11:34 AM

to Ted Ted: I think Tony wants to see you, but doesn't want to "lose" this argument. You had better figure out a way for both of you to save face and end this immediately.

dawn Ted Havelka <ted@cs.pdx.edu>

Apr 26, 2018, 12:30 PM

to Dawn

Hello Dawn,

I really want to see Tony again as well. I've let Tony know this, and I ask you to pass this along to Tony again too. I am interested to get back to our regular visits. I've also asked Tony if she would be interested or willing to share a meal out, that we may talk or just spend the time to catch up.

I hope too that Tony will reconsider and come over to share dinner with us tonight. I invited her a few days ago, and it would be nice to see her this way.

It's also my desire that Tony and I will have opportunity to return to counseling. I think Tony and I have some important matters to discuss with the help of a counselor. As for saving face, I don't want to turn this issue a "who's right" or any other kind of power struggle. I think the focus we need most is to remember that we all need to talk with each other and work things out. I haven't fought or yelled, and I also haven't buckled under Tony's demands. I think both those actions would be harmful, and they would show Tony the wrong example of how to build relationships and also get what she needs.

Probably not tonight but soon, I'd like to talk with Tony about what has happened, get her take, share my take, and start to make some progress forward. Please remind Tony that she has a place here and we really hope to see her soon, and often going forward.

- Ted


Dawn martin <dawnysophia@yahoo.com>

Apr 27, 2018, 10:04 AM

to Ted Ted: You never told me how your individual counseling is going or what your counselor says about how you should approach this problem with Tony. From what Tony has said, I am not confident that you haven't "fought or yelled" during this long struggle.

My brother and his son haven't spoken for about 5 years because my nephew's dog shit in the house and my brother yelled at him for not doing a better job of cleaning it up. I want to be clear. I think you are wrong and Tony is right. Are you prepared to lose her over a music stand? It sure looks like it.

This is a power struggle. It has been from the beginning. You gave her a gift and then tried to control how and where she used it. You need to make this right. I am not sure that Tony will even accompany you to counseling to talk this out. This requires action - not talking. You want to go to counseling so you can tell Tony over and over again in ten different ways that her reaction to the problem was wrong and you only want what's best for her.

Buckling would be harmful? Teaching Tony not to take responsibility when you're wrong is equally harmful. Admit when you are WRONG. You need to apologize. You handled the entire situation poorly. You should have given her an opportunity to demonstrate that she is now old enough and responsible enough to transport the music stand back and forth between the two houses. You were punishing her for not keeping track of things when she was much younger.

You can say, "Tony, I did not handle this as well as I would've liked to. How can I repair the situation (make it up to you)? Or you can continue to be "right" - which you're not. Ted Havelka <ted@cs.pdx.edu>



Apr 29, 2018, 9:59 PM

to Dawn

Hello Dawn,

I hear what you're saying, I hear you insisting that there is a power struggle going on, but I don't believe that our present situation is about a music stand. I don't know what made Tony focus on a music stand at first, but I think the direction things have gone has much less to do with my actions than you claim. I'm a good parent. I'm trying to make the best parenting decisions I can in my care and time with Tony. I set reasonable expectations, and have very few expectations and rules.

Whether you agree with my expectations or not, you're responsible to support Tony in having a relationship with me. If Tony complains to you about an expectation of mine, you can listen to that if you want. But if you can't find your way to encourage Tony to respect me as her father, and to honor our rules and expectations, then simply acknowledge her complaint and leave it at that. When you agree with Tony that she's right and I'm wrong, that takes away all respect she has for me. That negative message undermines my ability to parent and needs to stop.

That also robs Tony of the chance to maintain a good relationship with me and her larger family here.

I don't get to complain about or reach in and change the house rules you set. I probably wouldn't handle a lot of things the way you handle parenting situations, and you probably wouldn't do a lot of the things which I've done. But I have always upheld to Tony the importance of respecting you and your house rules.

As for counseling, it's not your place or mine for me to relate to you my talks with counselors. What I can share is, the counselor says that for Tony to enjoy a good relationship with me, she needs both parents backing her up in that. This support requires putting Tony first, over our own feelings. Whether you like me or not, whether you agree with me or not, the counselor says we both need to support Tony in her relationship with me.

In both word and actions I support Tony and her relationship with you. I've done so consistently because it's important for Tony, and it matters to me. Right now, rather than demand me to apologize to Tony for things which did not happen and a situation which you and I see differently, I ask you to encourage Tony to communicate with me herself, with her own thoughts and feelings, keeping your opinion out, so that Tony and I may start to rebuild our relationship. Dawn martin <dawnysophia@yahoo.com>


Apr 30, 2018, 12:55 PM

to Ted I'm curious . . . if it's not the music stand and it's not power or control, what is this problem about? Why won't Tony visit you? What is she upset about?

dawn


On Sunday, April 29, 2018, 9:59:31 PM PDT, Ted Havelka <ted@cs.pdx.edu> wrote:


Hello Dawn,

I hear what you're saying, I hear you insisting that there is a power struggle going on, but I don't believe that our present situation is about a music stand. I don't know what made Tony focus on a music stand at first, but I think the direction things have gone has much less to do with my actions than you claim. I'm a good parent. I'm trying to make the best parenting decisions I can in my care and time with Tony. I set reasonable expectations, and have very few expectations and rules.

Whether you agree with my expectations or not, you're responsible to support Tony in having a relationship with me. If Tony complains to you about an expectation of mine, you can listen to that if you want. But if you can't find your way to encourage Tony to respect me as her father, and to honor our rules and expectations, then simply acknowledge her complaint and leave it at that. When you agree with Tony that she's right and I'm wrong, that takes away all respect she has for me. That negative message undermines my ability to parent and needs to stop.

That also robs Tony of the chance to maintain a good relationship with me and her larger family here.

I don't get to complain about or reach in and change the house rules you set. I probably wouldn't handle a lot of things the way you handle parenting situations, and you probably wouldn't do a lot of the things which I've done. But I have always upheld to Tony the importance of respecting you and your house rules.

As for counseling, it's not your place or mine for me to relate to you my talks with counselors. What I can share is, the counselor says that for Tony to enjoy a good relationship with me, she needs both parents backing her up in that. This support requires putting Tony first, over our own feelings. Whether you like me or not, whether you agree with me or not, the counselor says we both need to support Tony in her relationship with me.

In both word and actions I support Tony and her relationship with you. I've done so consistently because it's important for Tony, and it matters to me. Right now, rather than demand me to apologize to Tony for things which did not happen and a situation which you and I see differently, I ask you to encourage Tony to communicate with me herself, with her own thoughts and feelings, keeping your opinion out, so that Tony and I may start to rebuild our relationship.

- Ted </pre> </ul>


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